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    A Concept.

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    Slash

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    A Concept.

    Post by Slash on Tue 06 Apr 2010, 2:53 pm

    Alright so I carpool with my girlfriend to college on a daily basis and she gets out of class an hour after my classes are over so I have an hour to kill every day. I think I'll invest those hours into writing this blog about an idea that came into my mind one day. Cause you know, not like I have homework or anything more important to do lawl. anyway i think it'll be a fairly lengthy blog so I'll date each day since i'm doubting I wont be able to finish this in 1 day. if you guys decide to respond to this blog then i will respond to your responses with a new response, not inside this first post. here we go!

    April 6th, 2010

    I'll be writing about are team based and also involves this clan. so there arent any duel/deathmatch/zerker concepts presented in this blog/tut because i personally feel that the gameplay on those modes is gunz at its most basic form.

    what is one thing that you think is lacking from gunz when we play together as a team? have you ever heard people saying that playing a tdm with your clan is easier because you're familiarized with their playing styles. i find that statement very true. with your clan you're more "in sync" and you know your place in the team. with strangers you're kind of a 1 man army within a squad of others like you.

    anwyay. the point im trying to get at here is when you have even a remote sense of strategy in a team you're more likely to succeed.

    So the answer is strategy. In almost every team based game I've played during my gunz career I've noticed a complete and utter lack of strategy. The most strategy I've seen from these games are macros saying "Stick together" or "Fall back" or people telling their teammates to jump one person first.

    April 7th, 2010

    So I'm here to present a different concept to the gunz team-based gameplay(grammar fail). in final fantasy 13 the battle system is tweaked so you can only control one character and the other 2 are ai's whose actions depend on what classes they are. I'll just run through what these classes are for a better understanding.

    Commando: Dpm melee classes (I dont use dps because its impossible to calculate damage by the second unless your attacks are ultra fast)

    Ravager: Magical attacks/aoe, also attacks whoever the commando attacks(Area of effect)

    Medic: Heals/dispels party members inflicted with curses

    Synergist: Buffs party members

    Sentinel: Tank/Damage absorber

    Saboteur: Inflicts status ailments on enemies.

    Well since gunz is not that varied we only can compare what we can do to commando,ravager,sentinel, and maybe medic (Although probably not since most of us in this clan dont med).

    Although most of the time I use 1 commando and 2 ravagers because it will take down a single enemy in no time I have to constantly switch between to heal/etc.

    Anyway the point I'm trying to get at here is that I see most of the players in gunz constantly being commandos or commandos that attack the same person.

    The other day I was in a 2v2 atk/def with a friend against jake and sean.

    although culminatively our skill level was lower than jakes and seans skill levels we managed to effectively defeat them.

    I maintained a sentinel class and tanked (also taking shots when they were exposed) in a relatively small space while my friend spammed grenades into that area while jake and sean were attacking me.

    My friend managed to kill one of them through a grenade at the same time i was killed and proceeded to 1v1 the remaining member on the other team. I think it was jake? idk, but the other person was around low yellow/red and my friend was full so my friend was able to finish him off and win.

    Although that ended up with me having no kills and a death i didnt mind because the goal was for us to win.

    Some people might not like this idea because I see a lot of people "maintaining a godly match kdr" going on in team deathmatches teamwork is essential when it comes to win/lose situations such as clan wars.

    April 13th, 2010

    Uhm. Damn its been a few days I lost my train of thought.

    Oh yes, well Heero brought up a good point that having set classes for people in our team would be crippling because our strategy wouldn't be flexible if the circumstances change.

    Although classes definitely rely on what kind of equipment we have it also refers to our battle plan when we're fighting.

    For example say we're in a 4v4 tdm. I might call something like Commando Ravager Ravager Sentinel.

    This wouldn't mean I would have 2 of the team to leave the game and grab rockets and spam them on whoever they see.

    More or less I would mean for 2 of the team to follow my lead and gang on 1 person at a time until they die and the sentinel would try to tank and distract the other team from us.

    Also, concerning the limited weapons set up when classes are called, our characters are capable of holding a variety of weapons and accessories and that allows us to be multiple classes at once.

    For example: My normal setup
    ager
    Golden Dragon Sword
    Breaker 8
    Cruelizon (I love you Dar)
    3 Frag grenades

    Sentinel is pretty much a universal class because anybody that uses a sword can easily turtle with it, people with daggers can sentinel too if they can dodge and run like a bunny rabbit.

    Everybody starts off as commando.

    and spamming grenades would work for being a ravager if my team could get the other team into the right spots.

    But yeah, thats just the gist of it, I'll go more in depth about behavior and weapon setups tomorrow.

    April 15th, 2010

    Alright so today I'll see how much I can go in depth about the weapons and equipment and behaviors set up in my classes, if I do not complete today I will finish it tomorrow(or the next day) but I'll still keep it on the posting of this date to avoid seperation and confusion.

    There will be around 2 types of descriptions for most of these classes, the flexible class which allows you to be around 2-3 classes and the pure class which is the class to its extreme.

    Commando- Just really your average set up really. Double shotties/revs/anything, nades, whatever melee you prefer. Pretty much the default class.

    Behavior wise the Commando is usually the leader of the team, the core if you will, 1 commando with other classes accenting and covering them will usually leave the commando with the highest kill death ratio, only if the commando is a good one, otherwise the commando could be dropped fairly quickly and the rest of the team would fall apart.

    (Note: All variations of flex classes are predominantly Commando with hints of other classes included)

    Ravager-

    Pure- Double rockets or possibly a single rocket + another gun of your choice in the case that someone will go after you, also pack a lot of grenades. Heavy machine guns could also be used if you're the type to stay in the back and rain lead upon enemies. The downside to this class is the weight will be an issue, Ring of Great Emperors are highly recommended since they add +5 weight and also add +5 armor. If you do not have those then Ring of Feathers are the next best step. If the weight is still too much you might have to remove some clothing which leads to lower hp/ap and makes you more susceptible to quick deaths. Even more so if you're spamming rockets since they'll basically form a trail heading straight towards you. Not to mention rockets are pretty noticeable.

    Flex- usually your normal set up with extra nades, not to hard to do, just swap out rings and you should be able to pack more nades Double revs could be swapped for shotguns to allows far distance sniping at whoever the commando is, shotgun/rifle combos also could work of you can spray effectively. Weight isn't as much of a problem here.

    Behavioral aspects of the Ravager, you're an assist member. Your kill count might be low since you aren't doing insane amounts of damage at a time but you should be able to finish off weakened enemies quit easily, that being said, your death counts will be low if non existent. Most of the time you'll be in the background whittling away at the enemy's hp so you' won't be in the red zone as much unless the enemy team decides to focus on you.

    Medic- Uhhh not much to say here, most ofthe time people use meds on themselves. The only times I see people use meds on teammates are during cooldown times during atk defs. Not to mention that our clan dislikes medders. This class also will not work unless the medic uses pmeds since regular meds are too heavy and only heal 10 hp each med.

    Synergist- Doesn't work for gunz, although in tdm games where friendly fire is allowed you can charge your teammate's massive by slashing their block which can give them a quickie massive but thats not really recommended since theres a chance you'll slash them + you'll recoil.

    Saboteur-

    Pure/Flex- I personally feel like can make or break a team, I also feel that this class is the most strategic class although the hardest class to master. Essentially you will be a commando but you'll be equipped with meds/flashbangs/smokes. The meds could be used for healing, but if you can manage to bait people to the meds and ambush them that'd be impressive. Flashbangs and smokes are a double sided blade since you can also blind yourself/teammates. I recommend macros stating that you're about to throw these nades before you actually throw them to avoid friendly fire. I'll go in depth about these 2 secondary grenades.

    Flashbangs- Blinds the enemy, this is good for campers in atk/defs or campers in the basement of mansion. These are usually more effective in enclosed areas because there will be a smaller chance that your teammates inadvertently being blinded. Very good for rushing past people. You can usually tell if you've effectively blinded an enemy by their random movements and/or turtling. Calling this out to your teammates and all converging on that person before they recover will result in a quick and easy kill.

    Smokes- Smokes cause screen lag.Idk if this is an intended effect of the smoke grenades in ijji or this is because they produce pixels at a fast rate and most gfx cards can't support (GunZ's graphics are too much LOL) that so it produces the screen lag (this is most liekly the reason). Can someone with a really good graphics card get to me on that? Anyway, these are good for rushing past campers in small spots where you could be teamed or providing cover for your team to escape and regroup. These also work well if the other team is overly aggressive, you can throw in a grenade along with the smoke and they'll rush in and unexpectedly be hit by a grenade. Do flashbangs work through smokes? Gotta see if they do.

    But yeah. You need to be careful with this class because while it could help your team greatly it could also cause them to lose. I once ran myself off the bridge in Castle cause Hoku flashed me lol.

    Behaviorally you have 2 ways to go. You can either stay in the background and act like a Ravager picking at enemies and throwing smokes or flashes when you see a teammate in trouble or if your team is playing aggressively in say an attack def you could lead the charge. If you decide to play in the Ravager style don't expect a lot of kills. You also need to be sneaky while playing the ravager style so the opposing team won't notice the flashbang before its too late.

    Well it seems I'm done explaining these classes. I'll now provide examples of classes in our clan and I'd like to also have replays posted here demonstrating how the classes work.

    Examples

    I'm posting a couple of examples of people that are good representations of each class and why, if you aren't in this list it's not because you aren't good for any classes its because I haven't played with you consistently enough to know your playing style.

    Commando:

    CuDarylin- Her playing style is incredibly aggressive and she moves a lot, this results in her keeping the pressure on her enemies quite well and minimizes enemy medding. Combine her with another Commando or a Ravager and they'll make quick work of the enemy team 1 person at a time.

    Slinky- Her aim is phenomenal. I believe she is the only clan member to use an Avenger in her default setup. Her damage output is very consistent and high so she drops whoever she's fighting fairly quickly, add the extra support and the other team will drop like flies.

    Demi- He's the deadliest person I know with a sword. His melee angling and quick dbf results in him being almost impossible to recoil and hit. Demi is essentially a mobile Sentinel, he's a great core that'll tank damage and still dish it back out. Wish he still played GunZ though.

    Ravager:

    EricNitro- He doesn't k style but damn he's got a helluva good eye with rifles. He knows how to stay in the background and pick at enemies with his rifles instead of rushing into the midst of battle and getting dbfed to death.

    Disappoint- I've tried as hard as I can to be a Commando but 8/10 times it's resulted in me being the first one killed. I've found a good notch skirting along the sides and backs of the enemy team and pbing them while they're distracted. I've also good a fairly good nade throwing arm and am still aggressive enough to run in an help out a teammate in trouble when they're massived or cornered.

    Sentinel:

    Graeter2- Jake's ability to move erratically and his knowledge of turtle angles allows him to be able to walk straight into the enemy team's base during an attack def and barely take any damage while providing a distraction for everybody to rush in. It also helps that he can move very quickly and dodge like a rabbit when tanking is no longer adequate.

    HeeroYamato- His tbf is deadly. Its pretty much is a wall in front of him that deals rapid damage to whoever touches it. Turtling the tbf is useless since he won't recoil and massiving him from the front has a miniscule chance of success rate since his animations are constantly resetting. You'll more or less just end up caught in the tbf after the massive. He's great to team with since he'll get right up into the other team's ass and provide very good aggro. Most people that have a tbf will panic and back away from it and not pay attention to anybody else so if you're a sniper you would be able to pick them off while they're backing off.


    Last edited by Slash on Mon 07 Jun 2010, 2:48 pm; edited 8 times in total
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    Heero

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    Re: A Concept.

    Post by Heero on Wed 07 Apr 2010, 6:26 pm

    Contrary to popular belief, some Gunz clans do have predetermined tactics outside of "MEDDING/RELOADING; ENEMY SIGHTED". Way back before you guys even knew Gunz existed, in the days of International Gunz, I had a pretty decent clan (For iGunZ at least). I had recruited one guy in particular who was really intense about the way he played his games, especially Counter-Strike. He eventually ran my clan though some tactic runs and he gave them codenames. Everyone had a role and an objective location.
    If the map was mansion and he used the macro:

    ALPHA, that meant that everyone stop fighting and run to your designated spawn point.
    Of course on the flip side BETA meant to stop what you were doing and go to enemy spawn point.

    SIGMA stop what you're doing and go down to the basement.

    GAMMA stop what you're doing and go behind the stairs in the main hall.
    I think they had one more that was probably

    DELTA, Disregard that last command and go to your way-point.

    Oh right, Way-points were given to you ahead of time along with a codename. Codenames were whatever you want but they had to be 4 characters long, mine was ECHO, and my Way-Point was 3FLS (3rd Floor Left Side - Side closest to the Table Room).

    The rule for your way-point macro was that you had to use a dark color for the Codename, and gray for the location. "^!6ECHO^9:^03FLS" == ECHO:03FLS.

    As far as what I will refer to as Jobs, or Classes, that was far too inefficient for a Team-Deathmatch since that would limit you to a particular role, however we did have tactics for situations regarding if you were massived or flip'd.

    If you were massived and you got stunned, if you were in the location of your stunned teammate, you were to stand inbetween your teamate and his attacker and block or if they were close enough, flip. If your teammate massived an enemy and you were close enough your job was obviously to shoot, or if you needed to reload; flip them and run/reload and use one of the designated macros (I.E. !^1ALPHA).

    One thing that you didn't have to worry about back in the day of iGunZ as well was, people didn't have tank sets, and they didn't med most the time either. No Premium Items effectively made it so medding was just a waste of items when you could use flash bangs or grenades.

    The guy who taught everyone these tactics and callsigns was a real pro with flashbang tactics, regrettably I am not. Though he was quite proficient and leading people into traps, he never really made any tactics for flash banging if a teammate was coming down the stairs or anything like that, I think it was because we were still really new to gunz since it had only been around for about 5 months.

    Honestly I didn't fully learn the maps until about my 3rd year of playing, and now I can effectively navigate 3 of them with my eyes closed. (Garden, Town, and Mansion)

    Anyways back to my point, if you were to have a sole role in a tdm, you would surely fail, that's like us using lynnie as a healer in clan war because she can't fight those newgens anyway. All she's good for is giving us meds, which is a severe handicap.

    I think that it would be far more effective to have, if you want me to use final fantasy terms, a Blue Mage, someone who can do all those enemy techniques like Forbidden Step, and DHS and then just reinforce their skill with tactic and don't let them be cocky.

    You're right though, teamwork will beat skill in most cases, but I think teamwork is a skill in itself. I'll end off here and edit if I think of something else.
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    Slash

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    Re: A Concept.

    Post by Slash on Thu 08 Apr 2010, 2:30 pm

    Lol sorry I didn't get to add on to the blog today, didnt have school so I didn't need to go online. But yes I agree with you on having the set classes will be a disadvantage because we are stuck having the same things even when our enemies tactics change. But I will elaborate on classes on monday to explain what I have in mind.

    Those macros are definitely useful I think if our clan could somehow field test these macros in a fight it wold be awesome. then we could record thsi and post it here.
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    Graeter

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    Re: A Concept.

    Post by Graeter on Tue 13 Apr 2010, 9:34 pm

    I'd like to add on, that I'm a Sentinel? at heart <3, not just because I can't dpm or do an AOE >.> but because it's pretty much what's needed. I know in a tdm, if I can survive 9/9.01 times dar'll survive, dar'll kick whoever was fighting me's ass.
    So on that note:
    My 'Sentinel' Set would have to be mostly clothes wise. Seeing as how my weapons aren't normal.
    I guess what's important is the hp/ap, not the equips so, 143?/74?, or 110/110~ not exactly that high for the second group, but around there.
    Equips:
    Golden Dragon Sword *unless I've been questing and managed to find a shura*
    Breaker 7 (Wouldn't mind swapping for a pistol, have been on alt)
    Breaker 8 (Cruel's on an alt)
    andd.....alt's used meds for a while, but on graeter2 no space. So nothin.

    && I really like Heero's callouts/commands. They're great really useful if someone's in a bind, but until we all get to work together a bunch, it seems it will be confusing mid-battle. I was thinking for the tourney we'd have maybe 5-10 days notice of our partners, which may be enough time to synchronize callouts, if both are on 7-10 hours a day.

    Lastly, this is just me speculating. Probably wrong/pointless, but meh. Got my 5 cents in. or is it 2? =/ meh. lol, laters. Good work with this btw Slushie! This stuff is really important, sad to hear why you have time to do it though Razz


    Last edited by Graeter on Tue 13 Apr 2010, 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : cause editing is my life. O.o edit edit edit.)
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    Slash

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    Re: A Concept.

    Post by Slash on Wed 14 Apr 2010, 5:32 pm

    Yeah it'll be pretty confusing and clunky unless we are really in sync

    I also like heero's tactics, if we could actually manage somehow to incorporate my behavioral/equipment set ups aspect of the game with heero's character placement and movement we'd be an unstoppable force even against pmedders.

    Maybe If I set macros for my things and heero was the general commanding us where to go it would work, of course his macros would be much more frequent than mine.
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    Slash

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    Re: A Concept.

    Post by Slash on Mon 07 Jun 2010, 2:49 pm

    bumping this post since it's done now. dunno whose gonna bother to read it though haha
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    Darylin

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    Re: A Concept.

    Post by Darylin on Tue 08 Jun 2010, 7:53 am

    That.. is so long. /dies
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    PedoBear

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    Re: A Concept.

    Post by PedoBear on Fri 09 Jul 2010, 2:50 am

    >.> I read it and I'm okay with sword not that great anywho I've been getting back on gunz recently maybe y'all need to get on o.O

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